Obama has completed one portion of the bill! now he must push through and succeed to obtain the rest of the bill.  Go Man GO!

I pray it never passes - and it faces a much tougher fight in the senate. 

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
"Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." E. Wiesel
OKP's Resident B****
Imprudens est draconem vivum de consiliis tuis omittere.
Steet team Leader for NYS, OH and Southern Ontario.

And why would you not want it to pass exactly?

I agree with Andi wholeheartedly, but this is probably not a good venue for this discussion - too much high emotion on this issue.  What we ALL agree on here is what a great band GBS is, so might want to hold this on Facebook or elsewhere...just a suggestion.  I'd hate to see a division over politics mar this wonderful site.

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Jo

BombMom:

I agree with Andi wholeheartedly, but this is probably not a good venue for this discussion

I'm with you 100% BombMom! 

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~Life will be all that you make it~

I think the bill has some flaws but the Senate and the House have to find a compromise. Hopefully, it won't involve cutting the public option. With an unemployed daughter and an underemployed son and husband, This could be a very good thing. I hope they don't wait until I'm dead to initiate it.

Anne

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And when the winds of change begin to blow,
I'll whisper, "You're my lighthouse" in case you didn't know.

Sons of Maxwell

visit my website!:
Anne's Philly Phan Site at http://www.gbsfanatic.com

We have a public option. Medicare.  Don't need another. I think Obamacare is a dangerous path to go down. Socializing one part of society will lead to more and more socialization and to what end? I fear for the outcome.

 The devil's in the details.  What are the details that we're not seeing here...starting with how it's funded.

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
"Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." E. Wiesel
OKP's Resident B****
Imprudens est draconem vivum de consiliis tuis omittere.
Steet team Leader for NYS, OH and Southern Ontario.

As much as I empathize with you, Anne - I have a son who will very soon be in that under-employed category and likely without any insurance coverage - and I hate to totally bring it home like this, but with socialized medicine comes health-care rationing, and who will be the first to be rationed from services??  Kids like our buddy Liam tops the list.  Check survival rates for babies like him in countries with socialized medicine...I have not checked, but honestly, I fully suspect that if their rates are even close, it's because most of those children were aborted so they don't figure into the statistics.

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Jo

I'm with you all the way on this Andi !  However Bombmom and BetRx are right....we should leave this topic for another web site .... in the meantime i'm going through serious GBS withdrawal.  No local dates on their upcoming tour at all (SNIFF)

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"Some government bastard now takes it from me"... E.McCann

"Politicians don't care for whats yours or what's mine" - E.McCann

"Music is sound organized for the purpose of decorating time"...Frank Zappa

"If life was fair Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead"...Johnny Carson

Ok...Ok... its not a GBS topic...but it is an "Ordinary Day" topic. I just don't understand how americans can feel so good about the men coming back from the war with health related issues. Say they are in the "no risk" group, and member of they family say a son or daughter is discovered to have cancer...they are off of the payroll, off of any type of government support including vet. and they cannot get insurance , and they are expected to do what? are they expected to raise money by how? fundraising? And its funny how everything is so topsy tervey about the "social" aspect of thinking.....isn't better for everyone to be able to have the RIGHT... yes I said right...to health without having to pay for it in the afterlife? Ok ..I'll stop now. It is a heated issue....Say how about them GBS?

BombMom:

Check survival rates for babies like him in countries with socialized medicine...I have not checked, but honestly, I fully suspect that if their rates are even close, it's because most of those children were aborted so they don't figure into the statistics.

ouch! that's quite an assumption.

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Sing an unwritten song or repent for the deeds you left undone.- GBS
If curious means that you trade your routines for something free, the freedom you feel's the whole point of the deal so curious I'll be! - BNL
Priates over Ninjas!!

Is Canada considered a country that lets our babys die? NO...they aren't and everyone get access to the healthcare they need,,,,,why so afraid of change....??? don't you want to grow and become a strong country?

We ARE a strong country and from what I've seen - folks in Canada don't ALWAYS have access to the care they need WHEN they need it. There are waiting lists for things like MRIs so long that there is a company here in Buffalo that advertises EXCLUVISELY in Ontario - because they accept OHIP.  I've heard of several cases of folks having to come here for cancer treatments, or high risk births. or folks being told what drs they can see -even for preventive care. I also know several Drs who have come here to practice because they don't want to practice there.  In fact most of the team that saved my brother's life were folks trained in Canada who then came here because of your system

 OH, and BTW just because we don't do it YOUR way does NOT make us weak! Would you like it  if the Americans here told you how to run your country - and if you didn't do it the way WE dictated you were wrong and weak?  I doubt it.

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
"Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." E. Wiesel
OKP's Resident B****
Imprudens est draconem vivum de consiliis tuis omittere.
Steet team Leader for NYS, OH and Southern Ontario.

From what I have seen, the President has no intention of turning the US medical system into Canada's. He has said himself that it wouldn't work, he's looking to make some changes that he feels is for the better. 

I am not offering an opinion on whether he's right or wrong so please don't jump down my throat, it's not my place to say, it's not my country and there's problems  with both sides of the debate on top of that.

I will defend our system, however, and say that I'm not sure where you get the idea that health care in Canada is rationed, or even what you mean by it. Yes, we have to wait for some things but if you have the $, you don't need to wait for an MRI (and you don't need to go to the US). I wouldn't trade our system for anything because I DON'T have the money and would have to go without completely if there was no Medicare. I wouldn't have the money for questionable trips to emergency room ("Is it really an emergency? I'm sure it'll be fine."), and I sure as heck would not have had the money for the surgeries I needed. I was pregnant with a twisted bowel last time. I would have stayed home from the emergency for a lot longer and it would have possibly been too late by the time I did show up. 

It's also not painting the whole picture to point out that Canadians go to the US for medical needs either. Americans near the border come up here all the time too. Trips to the emergency room are cheaper as are tests compared to the US if you don't have insurance. 

It's also a rare thing to see a child  have to wait for treatment for physical ailments (non-emergency, yes).  Children are given priority. When you hear about parents having to raise money to bring their children to the US for treatment not available in Canada, it's not because our socialized system is making them wait in line, it's because it's a treatment not approved here or a rare from of cancer that we aren't equipped to handle. Yes, perhaps we'd be better equipped if our doctors didn't run off to the US looking for more money, but there are certainly not more people falling through the cracks in the system in Canada than in the US.

There are cracks in BOTH systems as well as horror stories.

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"I see you in the front row, bouncing up and down, you're ripped and ready for a night downtown." ~ Margarita
What's wrong with a little flirtation?

Monster Tee

As a Canadian living in the USA, I feel I have a good handle on both sides of the coin.  All I can say is, I sure hope this bills passes through its entirety but, sadly, I don't think it will. 

Why is the USA the only industrialized nation without health care for all of its citizens?

I work in the medical profession here and time and time again I see pt's not able to afford the drugs that literally keep them alive.  We always say it's better to have no insurance rather than some insurance; at least with no insurance there are programs run by the drug companies to help people out. No one should have to sell their house or declare bankrupcy in order to be able to afford their medicine. 

The horror stories told here in the US about people waiting months for treatment and MRI's are also greatly exagerated.  My mother, who is elderly, had some odd symptoms going on and had a MRI within 2 days of seeing her Dr to see if it was stroke like symptoms.  My sister felt a lump in her breast and received treatment and surgery within 3 weeks.

There are pro's and con's and every one has their own opinions but all I ask is that everyone keep an open mind.

 That being said, I need to go find $30.00 so that I can see my family Dr tomorrow.  Wouldn't it be great if it was already covered by OHIP?

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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "... holy shit ... what a ride!"