Hi everyone. I've been playing bodhran for a few years now and have recently joined a new band. Up to now I've simply been leaning the drum into my vocal mic as I play and sing, and that's worked ok for small venues. The band I'm playing with now, however, has 5 members and we're expecting to play larger venues, which means ideally micing the drum on its own. 

I'll be standing while playing, and possibly moving around a bit as frontman/lead vocals, so I've been thinking about a wireless mic setup. Can anyone weigh in with their experience on this?  Makes/models of mics would be great too so I can track the right gear down locally. Any suggestions for compressor/effects settings for live performance would be great as well as I'm more or less starting from scratch with this band.

 Cheers!

 

 

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

For a mic, I use a clip-on mic that I think is meant for a snare drum. It's pretty old, and I can't find it online, but it works great. I recommend bringing your drum to a Guitar Center or similar store & getting someone to help you. There's a wide variety of mic's you can choose from. One question you'll get asked is whether your PA has phantom power. As for wireless, I use (for the fiddle) the Shure PGX14. It isn't cheap, but people I've played with who use the cheap ones always have problems. Maybe others on the board have had better experiences with cheaper ones. In my old band the guitarist & bass player used the same ones, and we never had any problems. Anyway, you'd of course need one with an XLR input instead of the 1/4" like on the one I linked. Hope this helps, and good luck with the band! Tell us some more about it!

We use a Sennheiser e604 for our Bodhran. It works fine for live applications, but not so good in the studio. http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_instrument-mics_evolution-600-e-604?Open&path=professional_wired-microphones_instrument-mics_evolution-600 We've also used a cheap mic called Apex165 and it works fine too. Not as dynamic sounding maybe, but good enough for live. It does require phantom power though. http://www.long-mcquade.com/?page=products&ProductsID=1674 Actually, we use that for our accordion live. It works just fine. We tried the Audio-Technica Pro35 and ATM350 and they worked great in the studio, but for live we decided on a cheaper setup. http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/8b8850105bdc46d6/index.html http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/71d870fb398e6978/index.html Pick-up the world also makes a contact mic that might work well for live sound. We never tried it, but we do use on of their pickups in our Octave Mondolin, and it's absolutley awesome! It actually sounds musical. I wouldn't be afraid of trying this mic on a Bodrahn. http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/handdrums.htm As for wireless, we are tethered with cords, and it's probably a good thing so I can't help you there.... sorry. Live sound in pubs and clubs is something that we do on a regular basis. You can get away without any fancy compressors and outboard gear just fine. If your board has some sort of multi-band eq you will be able to dial in a usuable sound but boosting around 2.5k (a tip a friend gave me... and I owe hime big time for it!) Either way cut some of the lows out so that you don't get a constant rumble that at volume can shake your fillings out. The rules really can change when you're playing larger theatres and other big venues. Better PA speakers will allow for more tweaking and control, so a nice compressor can really sweeten up the natural sound of the Bodrahn. Sorry for the long rant - I'm a bit of a gear nut and struggled with it for some time. I still struggle with it to be honest. When we did our CD I struggled, fought and sometimes cried, but never really got the drum to come out the way I wanted. Next time I suppose. But live this seems to work. That's what we do anyway. I hope it helps.

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Wayne

Thanks Wayne and Jefe. What a relief it is to get actual field experience replies to this question! So many people here in Kitchener, ON give me blank stares when I ask this question in the local music stores - they just don't know what a bodhran IS let alone how it should SOUND <sigh>..... I think I'm in the wrong town! But I will continue my mission to convert the heathen to East Coast Celtic music! (Can you hear the sweeping soundtrack in my head?!?!).

I'll pop up to Long & McQuade this week to check out the mic options. Wayne the Apex 165 sounds like a good affordable option. I've got several other Apex mics in the locker, and despite their relatively low pedigree I've ben happy with the results they gave so I'm happy to try another model.  

The PUTW Hand Drum pickup looks like a straightforward piezo film tab transducer. I assume it is meant to be attached to the drum head and/or drum shell, but as of yet haven't found any install instructions for it other than the ubiquitous but hardly informative "experiment with pickup placement" line on the PUTW website. Has anyone used one of these things before? I may try assembling one myself - a piezo film tab can be had for about $5 -$8 online, and an output jack is $1 - beats the heck out of retail! If I go this route I'll post my results.

Now where did I put my soldering iron........  

 

 

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

Hi folks. For those who are interested.....

 I did a bit of experimenting with a cheap piezo disc I had lying around. I wired the piezo to an output jack and used a bit of double-sided tape to fix it to the back side of the bodhran skin inside the drum. Plugged into an acoustic amp, the sound wasn't too horrible, especially after tweaking the EQ settings (boosting bass, cutting highs). 

 So I guess the PUTW hand Drum pickup has potential as an effective live performance bodhran amplification system. I will follow up this initial round of tests with another DIY pickup using piezo film instead of the brass disc ($2.90 from Digikey.ca). The piezo film should give a wider frequency response than the discs and with the right preamp properly tweaked, it could work! 

I'll update when I've finished the piezo film transducer test. If it works well, it could save us bodhran players a fair bit of cash over buying retail pickups!  

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

I'm curious how your experiment worked out. If anything else comes to mind, I'll pass it on.

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Wayne

Hi Wayne. I ended up having to order the piezo film tabs online (from coldgold.com in BC). They are the more or less standard Measurement Specialties product, about 1/2" x 1" in size. The frequency response is musch wider than the cheap piezo disc transucer I had on hand for my first go-round with DIYing a drum pickup (which had very little in the bass end and a lot of hiss up top). I'm fiarly sure the piezo film will require a fair bit of EQing as well. I might work out a low-pass capacitor filter to see if I can cut the extreme top end out of the signal as well.... 

It will probably take the better part of a week or so to finish the next stage of tests - shipping via Canada Post being what it is, and with a long weekend thrown in to boot. I'll post my results here as soon as I have them though, as I'm sure your not the only other curious drummer out there. If results are good and I can access my recording gear (currently renovating my home studio - sigh), I'll try to post audio samples recorded directly from the piezo. 

Thanks for your interest and input here, Wayne! I'll keep you posted!

Charles 

 

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

As promised, here is the follow-up to my piezo pickup experiments to date:

I received the piezo film tab I ordered online and wired it to a 1/4" output jack as I had done with the brass piezo disc previously.  A bit of double-sided tape held it to the underside of the bodhran head, and the other end ran into my acoustic amp's guitar imput. Result: very little sound :(

The signal strength just wasn't up to par on this one, much less useful "out of the box" than the cheap piezo disc pickup/contact mic I tried previously. I have not given up,. though, as I think this idea has merit! I will try to track down a few other piezo preamps or maybe try to DIY one from the many wiring diagrams available online. If the signal level can be boosted sufficiently, I think the idea of a DOY drum pickup is completely feasible.

 I'll update after further fiddling! 

Cheers!  

  

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

Hmmm, now that surprised me a little. The guitar amp should have enough umph to boost the signal, so I won't suggest running through a pre-amp, like a Fishman, or LR Baggs, although that might help. Mayhaps it's not "BIG" enough? That sounds dumb... hmmmm I'm stumped. I know that you are now on a quest, but the Apex gooseneck is still a valid working option. I'll have to check back in a week or so to see more results. ;)

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Wayne

Hey Wayne. I expected some reduction in volume simply because the piezo film is not self-resonant like the brass discs. I'm going to try a few things and see if I can get it working. 

 In the meantime, yes the Apex gooseneck remains a strong option, and I may pick one up just to have it in the kit bag. 

 Stay tuned!  

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

I meant to reply earlier but my computer had a mind of it's own...

I use an Apex126 witth an Apex D-CLIP.  Works out well and you don't need any preamp.

I'm just in the next town from you.  I'll let you try it out if you want.  Message me.

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But I know I'm going to do it again!
Oh Yeah!
Robbie

Hi Guys,

I am not a musician but my son is a drummer.

 My idea on miking his drums was to use the same piezo film contact mikes you guys used.

I would install them on the inside upper drum surface and run the small diameter LG174 coax through the breather hole to a 1/4 coax cable.

I was also going to install them on the lower cymbal surfaces.

 The leads would then feed into a 6 channel Behringer mixer/preamp.

This would allow individual volume and tone controls on the drums and cymbals as well as amp the signal.

Am I missing something in this setup?

All help gratefully recieved.

Hi pipsqueek! You sound like you're on the right track, for sure. The problem I'm coming up against in trying to create a drum pipckup is, I think, that the output of the piezo film is low and likely needs a good preamp to boost to a useable level. I used to have an ART Tube Pre kicking around, but can't seem to find it. I'd like to try the piezo film tranduicer through it or something like it. I know I'm getting a bit of signal loss due to the thicker, foam-style double-sided tape I'm using to experiment with, as well, so keep that in mind. The entire piezo tab needs to be securely fastened to the vibrating surface in order to give best results. Use the thinest tape you can find, or even crazy glue, which is sometimes used for guitar isntals with piezo pickups like the K&K Trinity series......

I've been sidetracked on my fiddling about this week with my basement/home studio reno, but will hopefully get back to this one on the weekend or early next week..... never enough time!

 

Let us know how your drum setup works!  

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

hi folks. Well, sometimes I'm avmazed at my ability to overlook the obvious! I ent back and had another look at my piezo film wiring, and realized that my sloppy shileding job had shorted out the pos/neg connections - mo wonder I wasn't getting much sound - the signal was being shunted to ground! I also successfully boosted the signal strength by running the drum pickup through a DI and then into a mic input on my amp.

Anyway, I carefull dismantled the copper shielding tape and redid it - and voila! The darn thing works! I'm still playing with positioning of the pickup on the drum itself, trying to give it maximum virbation while keeping it out of the way while playing, but it does work!  

A few observations for anyone wanting to build a pickup:

 use shielded cable, and make sure your shield is grounded at both pickup and jack ends

be careful shielding the pickup  as it's apparently really easy to short 

 For practical purposes, you'll still need to EQ the pickup to get a decent bodhran sound, but I think that's manageable. For those of you unable or unwilling to try soldering up your own piezo, ready-made elements are available online here: http://windworld.com/products-page/electronic-hardware/piezo-film/ for $39USD plus shipping, which is still a far cry from the $150 or so the pickup companies are selling their (neaqrly) identical pickups for. If you've already got a DI or acoustic preamp, you've got a ready-to-go drum pickup for about $50CAD! 

One more caveat - this design is for live sound, where most people are willing to give a certain benfit of the doubt. After all, most piezo-equipped guitars don;t really sound like gutiars, but..... Would I record with a pickup arrengement like this? Probably not, as any decent mic will most likely give better results in a recording application, but for cranking out the beat for Whiskey in the Jar at the local pub? Why not! Easy setup and fewer feedback issues to deal with mean you can concentrate on playing the drum instead of  playing sound tech! 

Cheers! Now go have a Guinness to help celebrate 250 years of great Irish stout! 

 

 

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A Pub without live Celtic music is just a Bar....

Nice work gumshoe! I should have been able to figure that one out. I may have to play with that very idea myself. w

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Wayne