quote:

Originally posted by Daydream Believer:
Me again,

Interesting to note here that there are people on my own street, that I'm sure see me around quite often, who refuse to reply or even acknowledge my friendly "Hello" or my smile and nod. Some won't even answer or look at one of my kids if they say hello. That's just sad. Try to explain to a 3 year old why the neighbour didn't say "Hi" back..."Maybe they didn't hear you, honey." Tsk. Shameful.

Oh, well. People are the way they are. "and it's all your state of mind"

Liz

OK this is going to come out as it comes out, I have rewritten this several times and I can't seem to make it any less pissy than this:
I've been thinking about how to respond to this, or even if I should. But you know, these folks may just be shy to the extreem and while we make allowances for kids to be shy few people ,if any treat shy adults with any amount of respect..they are treated as being shameful or jerks or what have you. The whole, "won't look at" thing makes me think these folks might me pathlogically shy. And if they are you're probably scaring them by saying hi and what have you..even your kids.
I know NO LESS than two dozen people who are on the extreem end of shyness...to the point where several are medicated, others should be but can't afford it...I am lucky in that when I move in some place new my Sister in law intercept the new neihgbours and tells them "Leave her Alone, she is extreemly, extreemly shy and just wants her privacy." I don't go out alone,much, even into my own yard...and I have signs posted on my doors now (after a child walked into my house with outpermission) that state "LEAVE ME ALONE" some folks are getting the clue..others think I need to change to greet their kids with the same exuberance as the kids greet me with...not ever going to happen. I don't make eye contact either. In fact I avoid contact with others at all. Ask Anne, she will verify that I will literally run from a space if I am forced to talk. What she doesn't know is that if you try and force it long enough, hard enough or "hard" enough it's percieved as a threat...and I can get verbally nasty. takes some doing but I am not pleasant when my sanctuary has been violated enough. Call me a bitch if you want to or whatever, but I think I should be able to enjoy stitching alone, in my yard in a park or where ever I choose with out having to talk to anyone I don't want to...that is next to never respected so I stay indoors, just so I don't get bothered and pushed to the point where I snap.
In our group we have on man who is known as "Kendra and Bob's house gnome" he lives in their attic and it's taken them three years to get him to come out for dinner in their back yard, with just their household..he did it once and after the over the fence neighbours made a scene of trying to get him to talk he won't do it again for a long, long time to be sure. Another woman is on permenant disabilty because of her extreem shyness. She does not go out anymore except in the company of her husband...and only to places she knows with people she knows. Yes, shyness in adults is present and can be paralyzing.
How to explain this to your kids? I am fairly certain they have all met a child who is shy,, why not just tell them that those neighbours are just shy like so and so and to leave them be? By teaching them to respect the fact that some people do not wish to talk to them you are doing the neighbours a favour and your kids...they are going to meet with all sorts of people and they all deserve to have their needs respected too, in the long run, this will be easier on all of you and you'll make life much, much easier for those who are clinically or pathologically shy. We respect shyness in kids, why are adults due any less?

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
"Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." E. Wiesel
OKP's Resident B****
Imprudens est draconem vivum de consiliis tuis omittere.
Steet team Leader for NYS, OH and Southern Ontario.

Andi, that didn't strike me as pissy at all. A bit sad, because I recognise my mother in some of what you have said. She is very very shy too, not so dibilitating as you have described, but enough to stop her from doing many things the rest of the world thinks is fun. Her shyness comes from an almost total lack of self esteem, and almost complete distrust of people. Much to my sorrow, she almost always thinks people have the worst intentions so I and others must walk on eggshells as she is so easily offended. It can be exhausting. She is finally, in her sixties, looking into gettin some help for what is almost certainly in her case Social Phobic Disorder. Better late than never. And yes, I agree, that people can be really pushy. And get offended when she doesn't do cartwheels when she see them. Wouldn't it be great if no one ever got offended? Someone should write a song about that!

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In the social order, I accept the bottom rung, until the wine is pouring and the Lord commands a song!

what time of the year did you go to newfoundland in? i live here, and its so cold, hopefully you made it before this kicked in...suppose to be nice next week...nice being 15ish, but rain! yee haw...hopefully rain holds out for the weekend, reading week...hardly, we get monday, tuesday off! LoL we get so screwed with that one, everyone else gets a full week

Didn't strike me as pissy either, and I appreciate you bringing to my attention something that I hadn't been aware of.

Though I don't know shyness in the extreme way that you do, I was once almost paralyzed by my own shyness. I NEVER left the house on my own, not even to buy a pack of smokes (i don't do that anymore). I would have to convince my sister to come with me. And I could never look people in the eye. I always walked with my head down.

For me, though, it was a matter of becoming a bit more self assured. In some ways I "acted" my way past it. I couldn't imagine being afflicted as you describe, and I never thought that other people may be. I sure hope that I didn't offend you with my remarks, because I certainly didn't mean to. I do have experience with people around me having different disorders, so I know how difficult life can be with one, and how difficult life can be when people around you don't understand or don't care to understand and just want you to "get over it". Which, of course, is rediculous!

That being said, the neighbours that I spoke of seem to be friendly with others and other kids. That is part of my frustration with that. I'm also not the type to be pushy at all or press anyone to be a certain way, as I am still quite shy myself. I am also very careful, in my life, to respect other people.

Liz

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Life may not be the party we hoped for but while we're here we might as well dance! - unknown

No matter what you've lost, be it a home, a love, a friend, like the Mary Ellen Carter rise again - Stan Rogers

Andi- That was so NOT pissy or bitchy. Thanks for the extreme honesty. I have to say that your shyness doesn't come across that way in any of the dealings I've had with you and I hope that when I finally get to meet you that you'll come to think of me as someone safe to talk to, but I'll understand if you don't.

I had a grandmother(who lived with us until I was 15) who was, among other mental illnesses, agoraphobic and definitely had social phobia. She wouldn't even stand on our front porch, and would go to her rooms upstairs whenever anyone new came to the house and not come out for hours. It was awful. The fact that she missed out on so much still saddens me because I don't think she wanted to be that way. That kind of shyness or phobia or whatever the politically correct term is, has got to be terrible. There was a time in my life when I couldn't imagine anything worse than having to leave my own safe haven, but I'm lucky enough to have come through it, but I struggled for a long time - had a great therapist who taught me the importance of "acting as if". The bottom line is that it was a total turn around to be like that - I've been an uncontrollably gregarious person most of my life, but circumstances changed for a while. It's got to be so difficult to live like that everyday-if you don't want to. Some folks prefer to be left alone and that's that, but for those who'd like not to be alone and can't bring themselves to communicate it, that's another story.

I think we all in our everyday lives have had instances where our brains and our lips seem to be working independently of each other, especially when we're presented with something overwhelming. I once stood and watched Wayne Gretzsky eat(it was when I worked for an AHL team in college and he was on some kind of PR tour) and didn't say a word - just stood in front of his table and watched him eat(I was supposed to be keeping reporters away from him until a press conference started), in total awe. Coulda said a million things, which would have been more like me at the time, and didn't. Yup, that was me. I look back at it now in embarassment partially, but most of me goes, "holy cr@p! I stood that close to the Great One".

Being me, as much as I like to take the moral high road and say I'm above all the fan-like behavior, I'd say something or throw a smile to any of the guys if I saw them on the street or wherever. Still wouldn't hunt them down or chase them, but I'd have to at least smile and maybe say hi - or else I could just stand there and watch them eat. It's apparently what I'm good at.


Cheers all!

Kati

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"Sing lustily and with good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength." - John Wesley

"If you wanna touch the sky, better learn how to kneel" - U2

quote:

Do you feel that you missed a lot? Would it be better, do you think, to go by car?

I haven't been part of this discussion, but if I may interject my opinion anyway...

I generally don't recommend going by car unless you're planning an extended visit (weeks or months) because the ferry costs so much. I would instead suggest flying into St. John's and, if you so desire, and renting a car to explore a bit outside of the city. While in St. John's, the city bus goes all over the place and is pretty frequent (and of course, there are taxis, but those get pricey fast.) Flying generally ends up being cheapest. The only downside is you'll most likely end up leaving St. John's at some ridiculous hour of the morning for your return flight, but there's a hotel just by the airport you can stay at your last night; then you barely even have to wake up for your flight. I'm afraid I don't recall the name of the hotel, sorry, but it should be pretty easy to find info about.

O'Reilly's is quite nice, by the way, and is a place I would think many of you might enjoy. They have live music every night. Open mic is Tuesday, and on Friday and Saturday they have some of the bigger name local bands. If you get there early-ish on those evenings, you don't have to pay the cover. They generally do check ID, so if you look young be sure to bring proof of age, and there's no smoking there anymore, just FYI.

(Gosh, I'm like the tourist board tonight. Sorry! I promise I don't work at any of these places or anything. Just feeling talkative, I guess.)

Enjoy your trip(s)!

On my first visit to Newfoundland, I experienced extreme culture shock. Being from BC, I'm used to BC's culture. While I deal with tourists quite often who remark on the beauty and friendliness of the province, it can't compare to the maritimes, especially Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. BC does have it's beauty, but unfortunately, the people could use some tips from the maritimers on being friendly. Of course, there are lots of friendly people in BC, but on the whole, most people walking the streets (unless you are in a small town) don't acknowledge other people. They don't make eye contact, they don't smile, they don't acknowledge you. Go to Vancouver and it's awful. I had a business appointment with my uncle on redeeming some bonds that he had for me, and I had to wait for a while on Granville Street for him. I had forgotten my watch and was asking people what time it was. I'm dressed well, wearing a beautiful leather jacket, obviously not a street person...you think I could get people to tell me what time it was? I know they are used to getting hassled by the homeless, but I sure as hell didn't look homeless. People would take like, two, three strides past me before they would comprehend that I was asking the time, not for change. Then they'd stop, not even really turn around, and mutter the time and keep going. You have rude people, road rage, 'keeping up with the Jones' mentality....

Then you go to Newfoundland, and everywhere you go, people say "hi and how's it going?" I was so shocked. Getting out of my van by a taxi stop and the gents tap their hats and say "Goodday, missus." Shocked. No one in BC really acknowledges each other and it's sad. Of course, you do have friendly people, and I have made eye contact with people in BC that say hello, or fuss over my children...but it can't compare to the maritimes.

When we were over this trip for the wedding, my hubby's sister met his son for the first time. (She lives in Toronto and is trying to ever forget she was a Newfoundlander in the first place) and she's telling his son about not being a back wards Newfoundlander, ( a Newfoundlander saying this???) and I told him after to not worry about what she said. I said "don't ever consider yourself backwards because you're from Newfoundland. The other provinces could learn something from Newfoundland, especially about culture, friendliness, and tourist appreciation."

I actually got screamed at by a taxi driver in Toronto. He was not caucasion, and I, a caucasion woman with three little girls with her, must have looked like someone he could brow beat. I tried to rent his cab, and when I put the three little girls in the back seat and went to get in the front, he yelled to me that he didn't want the girls in the back alone. So, I'm from a little town in BC and not too used to this, so I proceed to cram in the back seat with the girls. I go to shut my door, and he starts screaming at me that he's going to shut the door, that's what he's standing there for, "I don't like anyone slamming my door!" he screams at me. (like I would!). So I let him shut the door and he goes around the other side of the cab to get in. It took about that long for me to decide that I didn't need to put up with that, so I opened the door and got out and started getting the girls out. He screams at me as to what I'm doing. I turned back to him and screamed "I"M NOT PAYING GOOD MONEY TO GET SCREAMED AT!!!!!" and took the girls and left to get another cab. I've never been treated that way in my life, especially as a person who is prepared to pay for a service. He must have thought that I was easy to brow beat, woman and three little girls. Boy did he get a surprise!

Anyway, that's my little rant. I love the people of the maritimes and wish we could learn something from them. What they've lacked in riches they've more than made up for in hospitality, and that means more to me than anything.

And on that note, if I did meet the by's, I wouldn't say something of the "music fan" nature, I would say that I was impressed with how they've been such ambassadors to such a beautiful province.

I was reading the news report recently about the flooding along the coast of newfoundland, and believe it or not I had to smile: The report said that emergency shelters had been set up, but not many people were there as most were staying with family and friends. I guess thats newfoundland for you eh?

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In the social order, I accept the bottom rung, until the wine is pouring and the Lord commands a song!

quote:

Originally posted by Petra/Smeagol:


I actually got screamed at by a taxi driver in Toronto. !

Anyway, that's my little rant. I love the people of the maritimes and wish we could learn something from them. What they've lacked in riches they've more than made up for in hospitality, and that means more to me than anything.

Petra,
I certainly hope that you have not judged the hospitality of Torontonians on just one cabbie.

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www.ravenvision.ca

Bring on the clowns, the jokers and buffoons
I've had the time of my life,
the life of my time in the company of fools.

I again feel the need to say something here, it won't be short, I warn you.
I am right now in St. John's, Newfoundland, spending my last day shopping and the night out in a pub listening to music. Why did I travel all the way from BC to here? Great Big Sea was the reason, but it wasn't for the reason most of you are thinking upon reading that part. I love the traditional music that Great Big Sea plays, I love the beat, the way a horrable event can be put into a great and funny song. Great Big Sea has kept my hunger for Traditional music satisfied, but as time grew on, I wanted to hear more of it, and not just from GBS. I have a Cheiftian's CD, an Irish Rover's CD, and a Cottars CD, grant you they are good, but it is not the same as Trad. Newfoundland music, and where I live, Great Big Sea is the only band that you can hear Trad. music from. So, I packed up and came out here, for the music from Great Big Sea's homeland. Even though most of the live music I have heard has been pop/rock, I have not been dissapointed. Here in St. John's you can walk by a shop and there will be Traditional music playing from speakers, there are people playing jigs and reels on accordions on the streets, and there are some great bands in the pubs here. I am returning home tomorrow morning, I have been in Newfoundland for a month, have not seen the b'ys yet, and I am not really desperate to see them, it would be nice and all, but I won't be heartbroken if I don't see them. I am not returning home empty handed either, my pags are loaded with cd's of traditional music that should feed my hunger for trad music until next year, when I hopefully come back to go to MUN, I wouldn't mind spending 4 years or so here, here I feel as if I belong.
And I also have a kareoke cd of traditional music and I am bringing home cod tongues, so there is going to be a kitchen party in Creston, BC sometime next week!
In short, I came here for the music that GBS plays, not to hunt them down.

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'He was rough, but he was real.'
Steve, you will be missed, Mate.

www.sharkwater.com

quote:

when I hopefully come back to go to MUN

A future MUN student! Yay! It's a great school. (Biased? Who, me? Never! ) Do you know what you'll be studying?

Enjoy your CDs and your cod tongues (be sure to trim off the jelly first, of course, but you probably know that already.)Glad you had a good trip!

I want to take a Bio course, the only bad thing about coming out so far away from home, is that I have to bring my pet snake with me.... so bye-bye residence, lol.
I will enjoy my cd's and tongues, my stay is not over yet, I have tonight, and a friend of mine is coming with me, one that knows the night scene better than I, lol. And I shall be sneaking into a few pubs... curse being 18!

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'He was rough, but he was real.'
Steve, you will be missed, Mate.

www.sharkwater.com

You know, honestly I'd say living off campus is probably preferable to res, or at least it was for me. Res can get pretty loud and wild, and if you live off campus you'll most likely be able to get more work done. There's tons of reasonably priced housing around the university. I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding a nice place.

Have you had a chance to take a MUN tour? It can be really helpful if you're planning to go there (and they used to give out free Memorial University t-shirts, not sure if they still do.)

I'll try to think of some places you could go to hear some good trad without being 19, but nothing is coming to mind. I know they let younger people in the Breezeway, but I don't think that would be exactly what you're looking for. They never do trad as far as I know, and the atmosphere was recently described to me by a MUN undergrad as a "meat market." I'll let you know if I come up with any better ideas, in case you're still online.

The Ship is lax about the id thing, I've been there many times, and I havn't got id'd yet, and one of the Irish pubs on George Street (not O'Rielly's) let me in a couple times. I'm learning, lol.
I did get a 'tour' of the campus, a friend of mine works there, and he was kind enough to take some time off and show me around.
If I get accepted into MUN, I am packing up and coming out. I would love to get a job as a bartender here at one of the Irish pubs, hearing the music every night and being paid to hear it.

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'He was rough, but he was real.'
Steve, you will be missed, Mate.

www.sharkwater.com

I have no doubt you'll get into MUN. I didn't know this when I applied and so I was really stressed about it, but MUN's admissions standards are not very tight (I'm talking only about undergrad here, for the record, but given your age I'm assuming that's what you're going for.)They have a certain grade threshold, I can't remember what it is, but it's pretty forgiving, and even if you don't meet it, there's a second, lower threshold where they'll still accept you on a trial basis, and you have to attend a study skills class and attain a certain average in your first semester in order to stay. I found all this out about a month ago, mind you. I had no idea at the time. My friend works for the study skills program I mentioned, and she told me. I can ask her the exact marks needed for each level and let you know.

MUN is, of course, a really good school, even though they aren't tight on admissions. Once you get here, they'll make you work.

EDIT: The cutoff for admissions is 70 and the bridging program is 65. I asked my friend about it.